Jacob Wept – Genesis 29:11

“While he was still talking with them, Rachel came with her father’s sheep, for she was a shepherdess. 10 When Jacob saw Rachel daughter of Laban, his mother’s brother, and Laban’s sheep, he went over and rolled the stone away from the mouth of the well and watered his uncle’s sheep. 11 Then Jacob kissed Rachel and began to weep aloud. 12 He had told Rachel that he was a relative of her father and a son of Rebekah. So she ran and told her father.  13 As soon as Laban heard the news about Jacob, his sister’s son, he hurried to meet him. He embraced him and kissed him and brought him to his home, and there Jacob told him all these things. 14 Then Laban said to him, “You are my own flesh and blood.” – Gen 29:11-4

At first glance Jacob’s weeping doesn’t seem to fit the story. He is looking for a wife. He finds her and he sits there and cries his eyes out. This is not how we would write the story but it is how the story went. If you read Genesis 28 it makes more sense. Jacob is sent out by his father Isaac to find a wife. He goes to find her. God appears to him and blesses him with the covenant blessing at Bethel. Jacob finds the kinfolk (where else are you going to find a wife in the old days, right?), and right after his mighty act of uncovering the well he bursts into tears.

I don’t think this was weakness on Jacob’s part. I know I am psychologizing the text quite a bit here but it is still interesting to me why he might have cried. In a world with no facebook, email, or cell phones…he flees for his life from his brothers wrath and travels to a place he has never been…away from his beloved mother and all that is familiar…and finally finds the people he is looking for. That was no easy task. That is a stressful task and even a terrifying one. Can you imagine walking to a distant land where you have never been trying to find a specific person with zero technology? I think I might shed a few tears myself.

What is more…God was with him. As so often happens with God’s promises the journey to their completion is not a stress-free zone but is often full of barriers, trials, and tests of our faith. In the end there is relief and things “click” into place where it all makes sense. You only understand that when the job is done and the fulfillment of God’s promise is obvious.

I love reading stories like Jacob and Joseph’s because they remind us that God is faithful even when things look pretty grim. The measure of God’s faithfulness is never how things appear on the surface. God’s faithfulness runs much deeper and wider and longer than that. It is a lesson that is hard to remember and even harder to learn in the first place.

About mattdabbs
I am a minister, husband, and father. My wife and I live and minister in Saint Petersburg, Florida. My primary ministry responsibilities include: small groups, 20s and 30s, involvement, and adult education.

12 Responses to Jacob Wept – Genesis 29:11

  1. You will be happy to discover that so far I know of no modern preacher who will accept my thesis beginning in Genesis: Either looking forward prophetically or backward as recorded facts Jacob had lots to weep about: God neither commanded king, kingdom, animal sacrifices or the accompanying instrumental noise of the Levites under the King and Commanders of the arm: They made war and never worship as Jacob prophesied perpaps weeping prospectively as Jesus did retrospectively.

    Gen. 49:5 Simeon and Levi are brethren;
    ….instruments (h3617 weapon, psaltery)
    ….of cruelty are in their habitations.
    …. (stabbing, dig through furnace, for burning
    …. Bellor fight, carry on war,

    h3617 a musical instrument, instruments of God’s Wrath. The devices of the evil used to carry out his plans: the Levites used both the sword and the psaltery in making war.

    Gen. 49:6 O my soul,
    ….come not thou into their secret;
    ….unto their assembly,
    ….mine honour,
    ….be not thou united:
    ……..for in their anger they slew a man,
    ……..and in their selfwill they digged down a wall.

    Consilior to take counsel, to consult,

    h5475 Sod h3245 session, deliberaton, secret.
    h3519 Kabod theglory or darkness of the temple

    Gen. 49:7 Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce; and their wrath, for it was cruel:
    ….I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel.

    Divido I. To force asunder, part, separate, divide (very freq. and class.; cf.: distribuo, dispertio; findo, scindo, dirimo, divello, separo, sejungo, segrego, secerno).

    Leapfrogging the entire Monarchy, Paul picks up with the only spiritual covenant made with Abraham.

    Gen. 49:8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise:
    ….thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies;
    ….thy father’s children shall bow down before thee.
    Gen. 49:9 Judah is a lion’s whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up:
    ….he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion;
    ….who shall rouse him up?

    Gen. 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah,
    ….nor a lawgiver from between his feet,
    ….until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. [Gentiles]

    Temporarily, the godly people assembled in the Qahal, synagogue or church of Christ in the wilderness: the sacrificial system was off limits to them and then never sang congregationally with instrumental accompaniment–no not once.

    Bruce used Hebrews and the sacrifice of Christ to refute the notion that God did not command sacrifices or burnt offerings (Isaiah 1; Jer 7) but Hebrews recites the same fall from grace at Mount Sinai and makes the religion of the Jews (a national or goyim) null and void by God sending His Son to let them LITERALLY sacrifice the very person they could not deny was the promised Messiah.

    I will post some on Psallo and the LXX but I thought the issue was dead.

    • mattdabbs says:

      Let’s examine some of your points…

      “God neither commanded king, kingdom”

      Did God command a king/kingdom?
      So what does Deuteronomy 17:14-20 mean? It specifically says God will set up a king who will have a kingdom and exactly what that man is to do and how he is to behave. Moses even says God will choose the king (17:15) and that he will in fact have a kingdom (17:18)

      “14 When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you and have taken possession of it and settled in it, and you say, “Let us set a king over us like all the nations around us,” 15 be sure to appoint over you the king the LORD your God chooses. He must be from among your own brothers. Do not place a foreigner over you, one who is not a brother Israelite. 16 The king, moreover, must not acquire great numbers of horses for himself or make the people return to Egypt to get more of them, for the LORD has told you, “You are not to go back that way again.” 17 He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold.

      18 When he takes the throne of his kingdom, he is to write for himself on a scroll a copy of this law, taken from that of the priests, who are Levites. 19 It is to be with him, and he is to read it all the days of his life so that he may learn to revere the LORD his God and follow carefully all the words of this law and these decrees 20 and not consider himself better than his brothers and turn from the law to the right or to the left. Then he and his descendants will reign a long time over his kingdom in Israel.”

      There is enough there for me to question your assertion. To be fair there are other verses like Deut 28:36 where God says when they are disobedient they may have a king they themselves have set over them. We see that in 1 Sam 8 & 12:13 with the very first king that God recognized that in asking for a king they didn’t trust him. But that doesn’t mean every single king is chosen by men. Again, see Deut 17, 1 Sam 2:10, & 1 Sam 16:1. Moses says God will choose a king. 1 Sam 16:1 God says he chooses David to be their king. 1 Sam 24:20 Saul tells David that God will establish His kingdom through David. See also 2 Sam 5:12 that says God established David as king over the kingdom. So whether there was a direct command or not the king/kingdom was God’s intention because He specifically chose the king for the people. If you want to go down the CENI route…Command? No. Example? Yes.

      We aren’t going to find a command for every single thing that is acceptable to God. According to the CENI hermeneutic we aren’t solely looking for commands for every single thing. So command or not the things you are speaking against happened and were pleasing to God when done obediently to him.

      You also wrote…
      “God neither commanded…animal sacrifices or the accompanying instrumental noise of the Levites under the King and Commanders of the arm:”

      You seem to really have a bone to pick with the Levites like they were especially evil. Let me know if I am misreading you on that. The OT seems to paint an entirely different picture of how God viewed the Levites from the beginning. Read Numbers 1-3, especially chapter 3. God says, “the Levites are mine”. God also says in Num 1-3 that the Levites are to carry out all the duties of the tabernacle (and the Tent of Meeting),

      “47 The families of the tribe of Levi, however, were not counted along with the others. 48 The LORD had said to Moses: 49 “You must not count the tribe of Levi or include them in the census of the other Israelites. 50 Instead, appoint the Levites to be in charge of the tabernacle of the Testimony—over all its furnishings and everything belonging to it. They are to carry the tabernacle and all its furnishings; they are to take care of it and encamp around it. 51 Whenever the tabernacle is to move, the Levites are to take it down, and whenever the tabernacle is to be set up, the Levites shall do it. Anyone else who goes near it shall be put to death. 52 The Israelites are to set up their tents by divisions, each man in his own camp under his own standard. 53 The Levites, however, are to set up their tents around the tabernacle of the Testimony so that wrath will not fall on the Israelite community. The Levites are to be responsible for the care of the tabernacle of the Testimony.” – Num 1:47-53

      Seems pretty clear to me that the Levites had a special place in God’s plan. Then in Numbers 8 God makes the Levites sound like his very special, chosen, first-born possession (See 8:16-19). That sounds quite different from the picture you paint of them from the very beginning. Which am I to believe?

      Were the Levites allowed to offer animal sacrifices?
      In Numbers 17 God makes it clear which tribe he is going to choose by having Moses take a staff from the leaders of the 12 tribes and place them in the Tent of Meeting. Aaron, who was a descendant of Levi (Exo 2:1) had his staff chosen. Then in Numbers 18 God lays out the duties of the tribe, Levi, whose staff he chose. He splits the Levites duties up, at least as best I read it, into the duties of all the Levites and then the duties of the Levites who were Aaron’s sons/descendants. You are right that not all the Levites were to offer sacrifices but all priests were Levites and Aaron’s descendants were the ones who offered the sacrifices (See Num 18:7). The point is you are not completely correct saying Levites couldn’t offer or were never commanded to offer animal sacrifices because they were in Num 18:7…the difference is, not all Levites could. Only the Levites directly descended from Aaron could. So you weren’t completely correct in your assessment on God’s commands regarding the Levites and animal sacrifice.

      Were the Levites commanded to give instrumental praise?
      As far as Levites and instrumental praise, I would have to do some digging on that one. You are probably right about them not being commanded. I am not sure if there is an example of it or not off the top of my head. I will have to look.

  2. First Part:
    If you back up a bit:
    Christ in the Prophets says that God did NOT command king, kingdom, temple, sacrifices OR music.

    This is calledThe Book of The Covenant (or Grace): This was the Abrahamic Covenant where the first born sons were the leaders and teachers: Priests in all systems worked for the King to control the labor force.

    When they rose up in the musical idolatry of the Egyptian (etal) trinity, God’s grace would have destroyed them. After Moses interceded God said that HE would not go with them into the land lest He destroy them. His Angel (Christ the Rock etal) went with them. He promised that in time they would be carried into captivity and death. They would not be able to HEAR until “another prophet like unto me comes.”

    God gave them THE BOOK OF THE LAW to regulate a purely Civil-Military-Clergy system.

    Deuteronomy is the SECOND LAW to legislate for the lawless until they would shortly be sent into captivity.

    Deuteronomy 29:1 These are the words of the covenant,
    ……..which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab,
    ……..beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.
    Deuteronomy 29:2 And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them,
    ……..Ye have seen all that the LORD did before your eyes in the land of Egypt unto Pharaoh,
    ……..and unto all his servants, and unto all his land;
    Deuteronomy 29:3 The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles:
    Deuteronomy 29:4 Yet the LORD hath NOT given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

    2 Corinthians 3 Paul said that they would not be able to HEAR or READ the Word until they converted or were baptized into Christ: Then, they would grasp that the Lord is the Spirit

    Now notice that God REGULATES what was the “elders” (always) demanding a King which Fired Him and ended the Theocracy.

    Dt 17:14 When thou art come unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it,
    ……..and shalt dwell therein,
    ……..and [YOU] shalt say,
    ……..I will set a king over ME,
    ……..like as all the NATION that are about me;

    The musical idolatry of a triad at Mount Sinai was seen by God as a PRAYER: He does answer prayers. Through Samuel they would DEMAND a king like the nations: God knew that they wanted to worship like the nations. He answered their prayer and warned that the kings would rob them of their children, their farms and their tithes to enrich the nobility.

    The Goyim meant Egyptian, Canaanite, Babylonia etal. The Temple was a Ziggurat. God sets up enough MARKS so that as God told Samuel the people could understand the idolatry of nationhood.

    Dt 17:15 THOU shalt in any wise set him king over thee,
    ……..whom the LORD thy God shall choose:
    ……..one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee:
    ……..thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.

    Dt 17:16 But he shall not multiply horses to himself,
    ……..nor cause the people to return to Egypt,
    ……..to the end that he should multiply horses:
    ……..forasmuch as the LORD hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way.

    Dt 17:17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself,
    ……..that his heart turn not away:
    ……..neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.

    Dt 17:18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom,
    that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book
    out of that which is before the priests the Levites:

    By commanding the two silver trumpets for SIGNALING ONLY we understand that God asserts which means He did not command what David is said to have commanded.

    This was not The Book of The Covenant of Grace but The Book of the Law: there was nothing prescribed in The Law which had any effect on the conscience or spirit of the people: thes people always attended Qahal, synagogue or The Church of Christ in the wilderness whose pattern was identical to that which Jesus exampled and Paul commanded and the church practiced before Constantine.

    Dt 17:19 And it shall be with him,
    ……..and he shall read therein all the days of his life:
    ……..that he may learn to fear the LORD his God,
    ……..to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them:
    Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city
    ……..them that preach him,
    ……..being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

    Again, Deuteronomy says that the PEOPLE set the king over them: God told Samuel not to grieve for these people because they were rejecting God and not Samuel.

    http://www.piney.com/First-Samuel-Eight.html

    Deut. 28:36 The LORD shall bring thee,
    …….. and thy king which THOU shalt set over thee,
    ……..unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known;
    ……..and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone.

    Deut. 28:37 And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword,
    ……..among all nations whither the LORD shall lead thee.
    I will post this so it is easier to read.

  3. mattdabbs says:

    Okay…I am confused. You wrote,

    “Again, Deuteronomy says that the PEOPLE set the king over them: God told Samuel not to grieve for these people because they were rejecting God and not Samuel.”

    So what does it mean that God would be the one who would choose Him? “be sure to appoint over you the king the LORD your God chooses”

    Isn’t he saying that they are to only appoint the man approved by God? The reason I am convinced of that is context. Look at what is written about that man next,

    “He must be from among your own brothers. Do not place a foreigner over you, one who is not a brother Israelite. 16 The king, moreover, must not acquire great numbers of horses for himself or make the people return to Egypt to get more of them, for the LORD has told you, “You are not to go back that way again.” 17 He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold.”

    Why lay out rules for a man God wouldn’t be pleased with anyway? It seems pretty silly to lay out a bunch of criteria for a man God didn’t want there. What about the other verses I mentioned that specifically say God chose various men and those men were pleasing to God…and God established the kingdom, which you are seeming to say was never pleasing to God…I will quote myself from above here, “see Deut 17, 1 Sam 2:10, & 1 Sam 16:1. Moses says God will choose a king. 1 Sam 16:1 God says he chooses David to be their king. 1 Sam 24:20 Saul tells David that God will establish His kingdom through David. See also 2 Sam 5:12 that says God established David as king over the kingdom. .” None of those verses seem to fit your conclusions. So do you ignore those verses or explain them away? I don’t think you can explain those verses in their context and come up with the same conclusions you have made. Just my two cents. I appreciate the conversation.

  4. Because God had “turned them over to worship the starry host” at Mount Sinai. God gave them kings in His anger and took them away in His anger. He listed several ways to MARK false kings.

    Christ spoke through the Prophets and Apostles: The Civil-military-clergy complex were NOT in charge of anything spiritual: the synagogue is commanded by Christ.

    If God abandons you to worship the STARRY HOST then when they claim that “god” commanded them we need to woory.

    Read:

    http://www.piney.com/First-Samuel-Eight.html

    I need to stick with the first list of verses first. The PROPHETS begin with Samuel and God told Samuel to “move on” and not grieve over Irael because the kings–in his anger–would carry out His sentence of Captivity and Death. The CHRIST side of the antithesis is in prophets:

    Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel,
    ……Amend your ways and your doings,
    ……and I will cause you to dwell in this place. Jeremiah 7:3

    Trust ye not in lying words, saying, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, The temple of the Lord, are these. Jeremiah 7:4

    For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings;
    ……if ye thoroughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour; Jeremiah 7:5

    If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow,
    ……and shed not innocent blood in this place,
    ……neither walk after other gods to your hurt: Jeremiah 7:6

    Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever. Jeremiah 7:7

    Behold, ye trust in lying words, that cannot profit. Jeremiah 7:8

    Jer. 8:7 Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the LORD.

    Jer. 8:8 How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is WITH US? LO, CERTAINLY IN VAIN MADE HE IT; THE PEN OF THE SCRIBES IS in vain.

    Chat was the message of Christ and earlier scholars such as Cyril.

    Don’t you wonder that you can find lots of Hiram’s temple at Tyre and not a shred of evidence that David ever existed or that such a grand temple existed in Jerusalem. They think they have found shards from Solomon’s time. I go with Christ and Stephen who say that

    God granted David a TENT (rather than have him executed.)
    BUT, Solomon built God a HOUSE
    BUT, God does not live in houses built by human hands or by the works of human hands.

    • mattdabbs says:

      So Moses and Samuel (who wrote the passages I am quoting) were led astray by this worship of the starry host since Sinai so that their writings don’t mean what they say? Am I reading you right? Please tell me that is not what you are saying here.

      “God gave them kings in His anger and took them away in His anger. He listed several ways to MARK false kings.”

      and several ways to make true kings…it goes both ways in Deut 17.

      Here is one of my big problems with what you are saying. Your interpretive framework is pretty skewed. For instance, why would you quote or go by any of it if you believe it is all questionable because of the worship of the starry host? One of the major flaws in your stance, if I am reading you right, is that you are quoting the very people who you say have no authority to speak when they agree with you and then when the same people (inspired writers of scripture like Moses!) disagree with you they say they are wrong because they worshipped the starry host. You just can’t do interpretation fairly like that, if that is in fact what you are doing

      Please tell me I am misreading you here.

  5. Ken Sublett says:

    I quote them because you quote them to prove that the king, kingdom, sacrifices and (by definition) the noise made by the Levites under the KING and COMMANDERS of the army: they do not make worship: they make war and drive you into a panic with noise–don’t dare to be a Gideon in Bible Class when Jesus comes to be our SOLE teacher.

    I can quote the writings of the Scribes whom Christ said lied about the tenple: Jesus called the Scribes hypocrites and in the Ezekel 33 version Christ names entertaining speakers, singers and instrument players. Do you suppose the Spirit OF Christ and Jesus and Stephen and Paul.and all historic scholarship prior to the latter day Reformation are also in trouble?

    You have to read the whole story: If God sentenced them to return to “beyond Babylon” then we should be able not to cherry pick “acts” of worship to heap on people.

    The Levites under Zadok did what they were told to do but to quarantine the slaughter of innocent animals in one place and the godly would be quarantined in the synagogue on the REST day. Never called worship: called REST. The fall from grace was the musical idolatry of a trinity. There was one altar in front of the Tabernacle and there was no “instrumental noise” even during the imposed sacrifices. The restricted Work includes “sending out ministers of God.”

    Acts 7:41 And they made a calf in those days,
    …. and offered sacrifice unto the idol,
    ….and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.

    We MUST define words from the Texts of the time:

    Euphrainō , Ep. euphr-, fut. Att.155.12, Pi.I.7(6).3
    Pind. I. 6 Just as we mix the second bowl of wine when the men’s symposium is flourishing, here is the second song of the Muses for Lampon’s children and their athletic victories: first in Nemea, Zeus, in your honor they received the choicest of garlands,

    Now, listen carefully::

    Acts 7:42 Then God turned,
    ….and gave them up to worship the host of heaven;
    ….as it is written in the book of the prophets,
    ….O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts
    ….and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?

    How could people get a Phd and have missed Acts 7?

    keep reading Acts 7-44f

    God GRANTED David a Tent at Mount Sion instead of letting him be killed.
    BUT, Solomon built God a HOUSE.
    But, God does not live in HOUSES built by human hands or by the works of human hands.

    Now, the clergy murdered Stephen for saying just what I have said. If Christ in the prophets said that the Scribes liied about the Temple then I can quote Him. If Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees (liars), hypocrites, and Christ named speakers, singers and instrument playhers then why should I be threatened for reading the text.

    “The Hebrews became infected with Sabeanism, the oldest form of idolatry, the worship of the Saba or starry hosts, in their stay in the Arabian desert, where Job notices its prevalence (Job 31:26); in opposition, in Am 5:27, Jehovah declares Himself “the God of hosts.” “the star of your god–R. ISAAC CARO says all the astrologers represented Saturn as the star of Israel. Probably there was a figure of a star on the head of the image of the idol, to represent the planet Saturn; hence “images” correspond to “star” in the parallel clause. A star in hieroglyphics represents God (Nu 24:17). “Images” are either a Hebraism for “image,” or refer to the many images made to represent Chiun:

    Amos and Stephen affirm that THESE were the “gods” being worshipped in Samaria and Jerusalem. Why do you suppose the “doctors of the law” take away that key to knowledge? Why: because the whole institutional edifice will all come tumbling down and they are a determing sectory of our GNP.

    1. David replaced the house of Zadok because Abithar got a message that HE )Abithar] shoulld be in charge.

    2. Solomon later corrected that when he realized that God didn’t live in his house:

    1Kings 2:27 So Solomon thrust out Abiathar from being priest unto the LORD; that he might fulfil the word of the LORD, which he spake concerning the house of Eli in Shiloh..

    3. Christ speaking through the prophets and NOT through the Scibes and Pharisees He called hypocrites warned:

    Ezekiel 48:11 It shall be for the priests that are sanctified of the sons of Zadok; which have kept my charge, which went not astray when the children of Israel went astray, as the Levites went astray. See point one

    4. Josephus warned that it was the Levites who were still wanting to wear linen garments and retore their musical pseudo-priesthood that HAD destroyed the nation once and was about to do it again.

    http://www.piney.com/Ant-20.html

    We know that the family of Zadok were “fired” by David when He decided to build God a house. Solomon reversed David’s swithch, and Ezekiel (Christ) said that THIS is what caused Isreal to go astray.

    This should alert all of the progressives that they should follow the direct command to PREACH the Word by READING the Word (what Paul commanded Timothy) IN PLACE of the silly sermons and even sillier songs replacing the command to speak THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN FOR OUR LEARNING. Students are disciples: they don’t collect dogma.

    You may not be able to grasp that without getting “Stephened” by the priesthood.

  6. mattdabbs says:

    Let me make sure I am following what is happening here right. Correct me if I am misunderstanding you.

    You said the king/kingdom/sacrifices (in that last instance specific to the Levites) were not commanded by God. I gave you verses that said God did choose those things. Your defense was that guys like Moses and Samuel cannot be trusted in those verses that God was pleased because God had given them over to the starry host,

    “If God abandons you to worship the STARRY HOST then when they claim that “god” commanded them we need to woory.”

    Is that right so far? I really want to make sure I am reading you right and not misunderstanding you on any of these points.

    So I questioned how fair and accurate it was to quote these books of the Bible when it supports your conclusion (as you have done above) but discredit the source if it disagrees with your conclusion saying basically, “of course they would have gotten that part wrong because God abandoned them to worship the starry host.”

    Your answer is that you are only using those verses because I am. I can’t believe that is true. Your website is full of references to these same books of the Bible to make your points. You seem to think those books have authority in some verses but not in others? So which is it? Why not just list here which books of the Bible we are to believe and which we aren’t due to God abandoning the authors to the worship of the starry host.

    Also, I am not alone in viewing these books as authoritative. Jesus quoted them to make his points as well and never did He qualify his points by saying that Moses got it wrong sometimes because God abandoned him to idol worship. I would say I am in pretty good company on this.

  7. Ken Sublett says:

    So Moses and Samuel (who wrote the passages I am quoting) were led astray by this worship of the starry host since Sinai so that their writings don’t mean what they say? Am I reading you right? Please tell me that is not what you are saying here.

    No, but Moses does not speak in proof texts.

    Moses said that THOU WILL SET A KING OVER YOU.
    Why try to do an end run around that?
    He did not say that God approved of the King to Replace HIM.

    If you are terminal enough to ask for a king so you could worship like the nations (what God knew but promised to terminate it soon) then you are not OF TRUTH or OF FAITH and God will send you strong delusions so you believe your own lies and be Damned: God doesn’;t mess around with people pretending equality with Him. Lying Wonders is exactly the “new form of jubilating praise” commanded by David to replace the Law of Moses. Strong Delusions is in effect God COMMANDING you to do and you have no light or right to repent.

    No: Moses and Samuel were NOT led astray: There is a difference between What God commanded Through Moses–The Book of The Covenant–which had no priesthood and no mandatory sacrifices. This was the Abrahamic Covenant.

    The Israelites REFUSED to hear the voice of God and therefore refused to “hear the gospel.”
    Moses said that the would be DEAF and BLIND until another Prophet like him should come: Paul said that this was Jesus the SEED of Abraham and not of the Levi tribe cursed by Jacob.
    If they were Blind and Deaf when they fell into idolatry (2 Corinthians 3) and could not READ or HEAR the word until they converted or were baptized into Christ, they then the curse of the Monarchy was a SIDE RAIL of primarily the Jacob-Cursed Levi tribe which God used as His servants to facilitate their worship but BEHIND CLOSED GATES.

    God turned them over to worship the starry host: Now ask, “what god did they worship even when they called the golden callf their gods?” That’s pretty easy. If they thought of the golden calf as their god what can you believe?

    God sentenced them conditionally to return to Babylon and Assyria where they began as robbers of Caravans (except Abraham)

    God gave them The Book of The Law to legislate for the lawless and to protect the weak from the Civil-Military-Clergy Complex.

    Christ said that God had NOT commanded any of that when He rescued them by pure grace at Mount Sinai: He imposed animal slaughter ONLY AFTER their terminal fall from grace (music and trinity)

    Whatever is commanded in that Second Law was not God’s WILL but God’s abandonment to themselves.

    I clearly spoke where Christ spoke about the Lying pen of the Scribes and the fact that the Scribes were named by Jesus as HYPOCRITES. Now, a hypocrite is a liar: Ezekiel 33 Christ names rhetoricians, singers and instrument players as the MARK (as in Job 21) that neither preacher nor audience had ANY intention of obeying God. In civilized Greek society poets and song writers were not PERMITTED to write true history but “what might have been if I had been in charged.” All poetic songs were two or three removes from the truth and always called lies to cheat the simple minded.

    AGAIN.

    Moses gave The Law of Moses after the fall from Grace.
    Samuel has God DENYING that He wanted to be “fired” and replaced with a king.
    Samuel was one of the first switches from Judges to writing prophets and the Civil-Military-Clergy complex ALWAYS murdered most prophets. They still do in effect by refusing to obey the direct command to build up the church on the foundation of the prophets and apostles.

    Christ warns about the Scribes of a not-commanded Monarchys whom HE SAYS lied about the value of the Temple. This view of God is pretty demeaning. One of our progressive doctors of the Law says that “God feasts with us while we burn the fat with jubilation.” Christ in Jeremiah 7 would call that blasphemy.

    P.S. Jesus was the ANTITHESIS of David: David praised God that he could shed so much Gentile blood while the Spiritual David shed HIS blood for the Gentiles.

    Do you think that Stephen risked murder by the clergy by lying that God had NOT commanded the Temple?

  8. Ken Sublett says:

    Also, I am not alone in viewing these books as authoritative. Jesus quoted them to make his points as well and never did He qualify his points by saying that Moses got it wrong sometimes because God abandoned him to idol worship. I would say I am in pretty good company on this.

    I am not saying that Moses got it wrong: I am saying that clergy got it wrong by not knowing the difference between—–

    The Book of The Covenant of Grace: which retained the First Born Sons with no priesthood and no mandatory sacrifices ever never. Sin needed no priesthood because it was not defined until THE BOOK OF THE LAW.

    And The Book of the Law of Moses if you violated the law of showing partiality says James you were guilty of ALL 613 Laws.

    Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
    John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses,
    but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

    THE MONARCHY DID NOT FOLLOW THE LAW OF MOSES VERY CLOSELY

    John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
    John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
    John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

    No kings, no Levites, no David as pattern.

    Moses said that the Jews would be BLIND and DEAF until this another Prophet like me comes.
    That leapfrogs ALL of the monarchy which was a Curse and not a PATTERN.

    • Ken Sublett says:

      Quote: “Also, I am not alone in viewing these books as authoritative. Jesus quoted them to make his points as well and never did He qualify his points by saying that Moses got it wrong sometimes because God abandoned him to idol worship. I would say I am in pretty good company on this.”

      Clarify, clarify, clarify: not what I said: Moses wrote the Torah: Scribes did not write it.
      Jesus called the Scribes hypocrites (speakers, singers, instrument players) when Christ outlawed “speaking your own Words” on the future REST day.
      Christ in the prophets warns about the “Lying pen of the Scribes” when speaking about the never-commanded temple. Scribes and Pharisees wrote their own songs and sermons.

      MOSES wrote the Torah: the Scribes DID NOT write the Torah: therefore I have not called Moses a liar.

      God turned the NATIONAL LEADERSHIP (the nobility) under the tribe of Levi over to worship the starry host. I DID NOT say that God turned Moses over to worship the Starry host: Moses was the one who says “it is not defeaqt I hear, or victory that I hear, it is SINGING that I hear. Moses smashed the tablets and they were never restated in the state which included The Book of The Covenant.

      The Scribes kept the GOVERNMENTAL RECORDS of theMonarchy

      Exod 32:33 And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

      Exod 32:34 Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.

      Exod 32:35 And the Lord plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.

      Moses isn’t confused. Christ in Ezekiel affirmed:

      I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries; Ezekiel 20: 23

      Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted [music] my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers idols. Ezekiel 20: 24

      Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live; Ezekiel 20: 25

      And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the Lord. Ezekiel 20: 26

      The Ekklesia or A School of the Word (Christ, Paul, history, Campbells)
      Worship is ‘reading and musing the Word of God.” same authority.

      Most institutions are patterned after Catholicism which is patterned after the Sacrificial system which is patterned after Babylon–prophesied to be repeated in these end times (Rev 17) where speakers, singers and instrument players are called SORCERERS who had deceived the whole world.

      That’s why there is an almost universal approval of God’s abandonment of Israel to worship the starry host. Stars always included “illustrious beings.” That is because seing godliness as a means of financial gain or occupation is the product of the once-Christian Bible colleges.

  9. Ken Sublett says:

    I have updated some data about the Levites: it is not in Biblical order because I wanted to make the point that those imposing instruments rely heavily on 2 Chronicles 29 as now claiming that God is speaking to THEM to say that “God commanded instrumental praise and we must not be disobedient.”

    I may put it into Biblical order in time. This is a quick review so don’t grade it.

    http://www.piney.com/Levites2.html

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: