David Garibaldi Jesus Painting

David Garibaldi was on America’s Got Talent a few weeks ago…I just noticed he did a Jesus painting as well

Conversation on President Obama, Gay Marriage and Christianity (Part 3)

This is the third and final part. I would love to hear your thoughts after reading all three.

Matt: Christianity struggles with extremes. There have been voices that have said Christians should have everything to do with politics and other voices who say Christians should have nothing to do with politics. Is there a healthy balance where we can land? I think that balance starts with saying that we can’t rely on political processes to be the leverage we use to impact the world with our faith. We cannot depend on politicians to be our voice or our power and strength. I fear we have often put politicians into some roles and given them some expectations that should have been reserved for God and the Holy Spirit.

Politics is not the priority in the life of a Christian. When we have faith in God it will certainly be expressed in how we view the political process, how we vote, what issues are important to us and which issues won’t make any difference to us. We have to get below the surface to the spiritual reality of our lives and how our actions and attitudes toward politics, legislation, etc either uphold a Christian worldview or they do not and adjust accordingly. I love how Jesus takes specific actions in the sermon on the mount and digs below it all to the spiritual reality of what God is really after. God wants our hearts. Have we given our hearts to another and does our reaction to all these things show us where our heart really is? Too often I am afraid we have co-opted and syncretized our faith with the world in a way that makes Christians unrecognizable from the world. We can’t let that happen.

On a side note, I don’t see why granting “partners” visitation rights has to be tied to marriage. Is there a good explanation out there of why the two must be tied together?

Philip: I pretty well agree with all you said there.

As for your question, that’s where my knowledge gets hazy.  But it’s always struck me that the only difference between a civil union and marriage is semantics.  And there is a growing sentiment in the LGBT community to call their relationships by the name that opposite-sex couples call their relationships:  marriage.

Imagine for a moment a bizzaro world (this is a stretch, but play along) where our country banned marriage for cannibals.  No one who openly eats human flesh is allowed to gain a marriage license.  ALSO- guess what:  Christians who partake in the Lord’s Supper are classified as cannibals.  So we can no longer get married.  But, hey, here you go:  you’re allowed to have a Civil Union.  BTW, that’s the case in only 18 states — in 30 of them you can’t even have a civil union.  So you’ve got that going for you.  But no matter what you can’t call it marriage.

To us, that would seem like a very strange way to prevent a group of people from enjoying all the civil benefits of marriage that a large swath of the rest of society enjoys when they pledge themselves to someone.  Much less being able to express socially that you are married to someone.  And having your government — which is supposed to represent you (“a government of the people, by the people, and for the people”) — acknowledge that as well.

So I think that’s the essence of the yearning that the LGBT community has.

Matt: I have a feeling the transubstantiation crowd would flex a little in order to retain their rights to marry I also think that many would view themselves as married in God’s sight (after going through the traditional Christian process) apart from what the government had to say about it all. There is the whole point though, right? Do we care what the government does and doesn’t say about all of this?

Philip: The LGBT community cares, yes.  Especially when it comes to civil issues related to marriage.

I don’t like being put in a position of defending their views.  I don’t want to fall into the trap that political moderates (like myself… since I am one) often stumble into.  Someone takes a side, so they (I) sense imbalance.  So as to restore their (my) sense of balance the moderate takes the other side.

Over and above the political intricacies of rights in gay marriage — or legal considerations of state amendments vs. a federal law — I’m way more interested in how the Church responds to the shifting dynamics at play.  Because I’m convinced that the bi-polar status quo of either wholesale resentment of & political activism against anything homosexual (on one side) or wholesale embrace of homosexuality & consideration as a legitimate, God-accepted choice for consenting adults (on the other side) is wrong.  So what is the way forward for the Church?

Matt: You saw right through my trap How does the church respond? We could write a whole book on that one and not cover it. In my opinion here is the key…the problem we have had in the past is that somehow Christians have thought that certain issues were serious enough that they could leave every single one of the fruits of the Spirit at the door when discussing them with others. If we embrace those fruits as we enter into these conversations we can have a healthier dialog with those we disagree with.

Related links:
Did Obama Change the Nation’s Mind on Gay Marriage
How Obama Moves the Needle on Gay Marriage

Conversation on President Obama, Gay Marriage and Christianity (Part 2)

Matt: Great thoughts. I had thought about Rex’s posts as well when you mentioned the culture war. Part of our problem is that so many of us have nothing better to do for the kingdom than rail against stuff like this. If we were as actively engaged in kingdom work as Paul was we might not even have time to be talking about these things because there would be more pressing personal and spiritual issues we were dealing with locally.

There are several issues here that have to be pulled apart:

First is Obama, as a Christian, openly embracing homosexuality and gay marriage. It seems technology has trumped Matthew 18 when it comes to a dispute among brothers. When Jesus talked about resolving issues among brothers he really did mean go to that brother. He did not say smash people you don’t know from afar. He didn’t say blog about it and air your dirty laundry first and maybe then say something to them later if you have a chance. He said go to them and trying to make things right. President Obama is a Christian. I am allowing him to define himself rather than get into all of the ins and outs of that here. If we take that seriously it would mean someone really should personally and privately go to him and talk to him about on homosexuality and gay marriage. Based on his recent comments he personally believes the lifestyle is morally acceptable and should be on level with marriage among heterosexuals. That is problematic as far as how that meshes with his faith. It does not seem that he is taking the stance that he doesn’t believe homosexuality is right but he is just trying to stay out of the way of legislating what people do in their own lives. He said this is his own personal view.

Second, how do we as Christians feel the political process and legislation play a role in the lives of controlling behavior of Christians and non-Christians in this country? That, to me, is the trickier question and I am still trying to figure that one out. I would be curious to hear more of your thoughts in regard to the first point and the second.

Third, is there a place for a prophetic voice out there in all of this? It seems the voice of the prophet would be shut out today in the name of not offending people. Imagine someone today taking Isaiah’s approach of preaching naked to show how shameful it all is. Someone would call Christians nuts if someone did that. It happened in the Bible…although it was done in Israel/Judah (insiders who should have known better) and not in the streets of Babylon (outsiders to faith). I am not sure how to balance all of that out but I think it is a valid question that I really hear people avoiding more than anything else. Thoughts?

Fourth, it is interesting to read the trial and crucifixion of Jesus and Paul’s trials and see what approach these guys took in dealing with the authorities of their day. Paul deals with Festus and Agrippa differently based on their own background as insider and outsider to Judaism/Christianity. I need to read through some of that again but it might help us to see how they dealt with these things and what their priorities were so we can further define our own rather than letting contemporary culture and politics do it for us by default.

Philip: It’s a good point about the President being a Christian.  But the President is not the first person to call himself a Christian & welcome homosexual marriage.  I’d contend that there are people of greater influence in circles of faith who are promoting the moral acceptability of this lifestyle.

Your second question is one I’m very anxious about for the Church.  And more specifically:  is the Church allowing political calculators & political actors to announce what our moral priorities are or are not?  And I think the answer is a resounding yes.  Look through history of our country we find that the church has a terrible record of being swept up into the spirit of it’s age.  During the Civil War pulpits across the land moralized based on where they were located:  north or south. (HT: Harry Stouthttp://www.amazon.com/Upon-Altar-Nation-Moral-History/dp/B005MWL7HG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337265012&sr=8-1)  Our pulpits moralized over the evils of alcohol leading up to Prohibition & had no idea about the devastating unintended consequences that would result.  Pulpits in the south were terribly slow to confront racism & even used passages like Ezra 9 to defend segregation.

WHO exactly were we allowing to lead us around???  Honestly!  Who are we allowing to lead us around today?  For Kingdom people who are on the left AND on the right?  If we receive our moral marching orders from either David Plouffe or Karl Rove, then we really are the useful idiots that the Evangelical Manifesto said we were 4 years ago.

If we’re seeking a prophetic voice for this country on homosexuality then I think we’ve mistaken our priorities & venerated “Christian society” ahead of Kingdom-building.  Prophets are always aimed at God’s people who have gone wayward.  Are we going to persist in holding on to this notion that the U.S. is new Israel?

Again- we don’t see Paul, a Roman citizen, aiming a prophetic voice at the Empire to turn from their godless values.  And just think historically for a moment:  how short-sighted would that have been?  For Paul to aim his energy and his talents at trying to turn around Rome?  Thank God that Paul was led by the Spirit to have larger priorities.

I think the prophets that the Church needs are prophets that the Church already has.  Like Shane Claiborne who invites the Church to come out from partisanship in “Jesus for President.”  And like Derek Webb who proclaims that he’s never seen a Savior on Capitol Hill.  I wish the Church had ears to hear those prophets.

But I think we still stubbornly hold on to this idea that we can create Christian Utopia here today.  If we just pass the right laws & have just the right leadership we can usher in an age of vibrant faith.  Or at the very least “keep God on our good side.”  And I think political calculators & political actors exploit that misplaced hope and/or potential fear of America getting on God’s bad side.

I think the Church desperately needs to take back her moral voice from the political influences that have tarnished it historically.  As you can probably tell I feel pretty strongly about this.

Matt: Much of the angst you are expressing was summed up extremely well in a book that has just come out called “A Faith of Our Own” by Jonathan Merritt. I reviewed it and did a Q & A with Jonathan about his book.

http://mattdabbs.wordpress.com/2012/05/05/faith-of-our-own-author-jonathan-merritt/

http://mattdabbs.wordpress.com/2012/05/05/a-faith-of-our-own-following-jesus-beyond-the-culture-wars-by-jonathan-merritt/

You basically summed up his book in a few paragraphs. I will quote one paragraph from my review just to give you an idea,

“Jonathan believes Christianity has bought into the game of politics hook, line and sinker rather than mapping out a more biblical approach to how Christians engage their lives in what really matters. Merritt argues that for far too long Christians have allowed the political parties to use us as a voting block to move their agendas through while we mistook our partnership with politicians as a means to advance and engage in God’s mission. His contention in this book is that our identity as Christians must shape our politics and not the other way around. He also believes that our identity as Christians overcomes the dividing lines between parties as the commonality we find in Christ can bring those who disagree on the issues together worshipping the same God.”

As far as the prophetic voice goes, prophets didn’t focus on just one thing or the other all the time. They gave air time to many issues that were causing God’s people to be far from him (idolatry, mistreatment of the poor, etc). You know the list. The loudest Christian voices out there today have three major problems in dealing with issues like this:

1 – They don’t do it in love.

2 – They target the wrong audience (in scripture the target of rebuke was God’s people nine times out of ten, not the world…there are notable exceptions)

3 – They harp on the same one or two issues (homosexuality and abortion) and give no air time to anything else.

We all need to be reminded that speaking on God’s behalf is a dangerous thing. So many people take it so lightly. In Deuteronomy 18:20 here is what God told Moses about those who say they speak in God’s name things God has not commanded,

“ But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.” ”

That is pretty serious business!

Philip: Wise words.  And on that note I think you’ve nearly brought this conversation in for a landing.  Any prophetic voice needs to be motivated by love.  Not bigotry, or discomfort, or fear — but love.  And that’s what our reputation needs to be.  According to Jesus we are supposed to be known by our love (Jn. 13:35).  And when you look at our rep in the world today it seems like it’s anything but.  We’ve got some work to do.

I don’t know whether or not our country should allow same-sex marriage.  There are so many issues (from hospital visitation rights to taxes; to national standards of morality) that I have a difficult time saying exactly what the right thing to do is.  If each one of us were Emperor who knows what would be the right thing to do.  Maybe there’s some among us who would want to, like the President, apply the Golden Rule.  I know there’s plenty among us who want to stand on the side of the Biblical definition of marriage.

But the hard truth to face (for some among us) is that none of us is Emperor of America.  So how do we Christians proceed?  I think we’d do well to be agents of love in the world.  Who knows– we might even win over a few members of the LGBT community.  Wouldn’t that be a thrill?  I pray for that.

Conversation On President Obama, Gay Marriage and Christianity (Part 1)

A good friend of mine, Philip Cunningham, asked me if we could dialog a bit on our perspective on the news that Obama was going on the record about endorsing gay marriage. We thought it might be refreshing to have a healthy and productive conversation on the web instead of all the trashing people do of each other. We were mostly focused on what we, as Christians, should think about and respond to President Obama saying he was pro gay marriage. Here is the first part.

Matt: One thing I will say and am curious to hear what you think, why do you think he (The President) has always previously said that he thought marriage was between a man and woman but that his thoughts are still evolving. But now that he is pro gay marriage his views are no longer evolving as you might think they should. It is as if you can only evolve in your thinking toward gay marriage being right and once you land there, there is no more room to evolve into an better view. Do you think it implies that? Am I reading too much into it? Well…there is my first post

Philip: I think the President said that because he wants to get elected.  Politicians — at least the ones who are good at it — say what they say to win elections & consolidate power.  There are lots of harebrained ideas out there about the President.  But one of the most under-discussed is this:  he is a political animal.  He & his team are as skilled a political machine as our country has ever seen.  And so you’ll forgive me if I doubt the sincerity of his evolution on this topic.

In fact:  it seems that our President has been evolving quite a bit over the last several decades (HT CBN:http://blogs.cbn.com/thebrodyfile/archive/2009/01/15/barack-obama-1996-questionnaire-i-favor-legalizing-same-sex-marriages.aspx)

Perhaps the most absurd example of political “evolution” is the issue of Healthcare & our new national law.  Four years ago, candidate & then-Senator Obama campaigned against a national mandate in order to defeat Hillary Clinton in the primary. (HT ABC News:http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/03/candidate-obama-opposed-health-care-mandate/)  And before all of the rancor & malice was stirred up on the right against healthcare, former Governor Romney pointed to his record in Massachusetts & championed a national mandate! (HT Boston Globe: http://www.boston.com/Boston/politicalintelligence/2012/03/mitt-romney-pushed-health-care-mandate-for-article/7nc7bRiGDmaomZXWuYpLFO/index.html)  And now, this fall, America will observe both of these gentlemen argue the opposite positions passionately.

No- I don’t intend to defend the President on his “evolution” same-sex marriage.  Or expect any politician to lead the Church forward on this issue.

Are you concerned at how the President’s announcement will influence the country?  The Church?

Matt: I think that the president certainly does have influence, otherwise what is the point of having a president? Does the president’s view on something dictate it for the rest of us? Only if it becomes law and legally binding. Being the first president in U.S. history to endorse gay marriage is certainly a step in the wrong direction morally speaking. I do realize that there have been presidents in the past on the wrong side of various moral issues. That doesn’t make this a unique issue with Obama. It isn’t that only perfect people with perfectly biblical view points can or should be president…we wouldn’t be able to fill the office ever again. The problem I have with this is:

• I disagree with his conclusion
• My assumption (could be wrong) is that it is all political anyway.
• Political or not this gives presidential backing to a very controversial topic in a way that has never been done before. In doing so he is giving more confirmation to society that homosexuality is normal (hey the president is on my side!) and that the fight they have been fighting to make this a social issue (something close to race) has succeeded.

Will it influence the church? Of course. Some will come out with guns blazing and will only confirm to the world that Christians are nuts. Others will stand for the truth in a more loving and gentle way. However, the church will still be the church. The church doesn’t stand or fall based on presidential proclamations or personal stances.

I ran across some items that came up on Obama’s website after his announcement.

https://store.barackobama.com/catalog/product/view/id/22891/s/my-two-moms-support-obama-baby-onesie/

https://store.barackobama.com/catalog/product/view/id/22879/s/my-two-dads-support-obama-baby-onesie/

I guess that means this announcement had been in the works a while (regardless of Joe Biden “oopsing” it) for his production team to have these on hand so quickly. My question for you is does it bother you that the Obama’s website is now selling pro-homosexual and gay marriage memorabilia? Do we just chalk that up to catering to his base and supply and demand or should we have a problem with him making a profit off his stance on these issues? It is not a new question, I am sure every president to date has made a profit off their stand on various issues and their stand on various issues has resulted in campaign contributions from those who support their view. I am curious to hear your take on that. Maybe I have already answered my own question.

Philip: I don’t know- the baby onesies for sale probably don’t bother me as much they should.  There are a whole lot of other issues that disturb me more than that — like the amount of money that is poured into our political campaigns in general.  I only have so much indignation that I can muster.

I did vote for the President in ’08.  I root for him to do well.  I want to like him.  So that’s my bias.

Still- I’m not yet convinced this announcement changes much.  The President isn’t pushing for legislation; he says the issue should be left to the states.  Most of the states in our Union have already settled on this issue one way or another.  The President’s announcement stokes the passions of the culture wars, but I’m unsure if it does little else.

And that former issue is my concern- how does the Church handle these culture wars?  How do Kingdom people dwell in a society where the unchurched are largely accepting of homosexuality & increasingly favorable to same-sex marriage?

How much of the Evangelical community’s contentiousness is a result of angst?  Angst over watching a “Christian society” slip away.  Our friend Rex (http://kingdomseeking.com/2012/05/17/the-cost-of-waging-the-culture-war-part-2/) and many others in the blogosphere (Rachel Held Evans, et. al.) have written so much about this — about the possibility of winning a culture war but losing a generation for the Gospel.  I don’t know how much more I could add.  Except maybe this…

I have a strong conviction about 1st Corinthians 5 being the normative passage on this issue for our day.  Paul is scolding the Church at Corinth over this guy who’s sleeping w/ his step-mother & bragging about it.  And he goes on & on about how it is our responsibility — the Church’s responsibility — to make sure we have purity within the fellowship of believers.  And he’s also clear about how his dictum to not associate with immorality does not carry over to the unchurched of Corinth.  v. 12 — “What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church?”

What business is it of our’s?  …to insist upon a what label is used on people outside of faith who want to pledge themselves to each other?

You know– Nero married a couple of guys in his reign.  We don’t see Paul or Peter organizing a million man march on Rome to “take their (society) back.”  That’s a notion that’s foreign to Scripture.

Cookie Cutter Books on Ministry Aren’t the End All and Be All for Ministry Success

There are thousands of books out there about ministry: how to do it, church growth, small groups, Bible class, and so much more. It is important that we don’t view the work and words of others as something to press down on our congregation like a cookie cutter and expect a similar shaped cookie to emerge. Instead, ministry books become one voice in a larger conversation about what effective ministry can look like in a given congregation, under a given leadership, with a particular church culture, at a particular point in time. That means effective ministry will also be watching and listening to other local ministers, bouncing ideas through email, twitter and facebook with guys doing similar things, and prayer and listening for God’s guidance. Jesus didn’t teach his disciples how to minister by handing them a book. They lived it out together.

Sometimes we assume success in someone else’s ministry can be guaranteed in ours if we just duplicate their efforts. There is no such guarantee. That is a false assumption that often comes with books on ministry. Mimicking someone else’s effective ministry is almost never the way to go. You can learn some great principles and gather some good ideas from watching those who are gifted but it cannot be our goal to be miniature versions of well known ministers we may never even meet.

Many of you have faced this issue before. You picked up the latest, greatest book on ministry. You tried a few things out and quite possible had minimal success. There are a number of reasons for this:

Different leadership:
What  is accepted, empowered, and pushed by one set of leaders won’t necessarily be as quickly embraced by another set of leaders. It is easy to get resentful when this happens but don’t. Count yourself blessed that God has given the congregation the men who are serving as elders. They may see issues you haven’t picked up on yet. Be patient with them. Their inability to get onboard with a particular vision of how something might look doesn’t mean we need to fight our elders or wish they were anyone they aren’t. We don’t need to think they should be like the guys across the street. They just have a different style and different priorities and we have to respect that.

Different talents:
Chances are you have a different skill set than the guy who wrote the book you like so much. You may not be skilled to do all the things just as they are laid out in the book. It may not be a fit for you. That is not a bad thing. It just may make sense out of why you struggle to implement and maintain some of the specifics. Some of us are better at implementing change than maintaining it and others better at maintenance than innovation. Also, what works in a mega church with a few dozen on staff won’t look the same in a church with a staff of 2-3.

Different congregational context:
The congregation and community you live and work in is probably different than the setting of the ministry described in the book. What works for a booming campus ministry in one town may not work in a small town with a commuter campus. What works with young adults in Atlanta may not look the same in Iowa. What you read is working here or there may not make any sense at all for where you worship. You must be mindful and respectful of those you minister to. It can be easy to spend more time reading books about ministry by people you don’t even know than actually ministering to the real people all around you. Remember, God is the one who equips us to do good works that He has prepared in advance for us to do (Eph 2:10) so it is imperative that we don’t miss those opportunities.

Techniques Often Don’t Account for the Work of God/Spirit
It is tempting to view congregations and ministry through more of a corporate lens than a spiritual lens. You might almost think we thought all of this was up to us and rose and fell based on our abilities alone. There is an X Factor in ministry that you just can’t account for. It is God and the work of the Holy Spirit. There is no way to effectively include this in a ministry template because an author cannot account in advance for the specific ways God is going to work in any given situation. Because it cannot be quantified or an “X” be put on the spot where God is supposed to show up and what that is supposed to look like it often gets left out. We all give an effort but it is God who makes things grow (1 Cor 3:6-7).

So what can you learn from ministry books?
You can certainly learn general truths and principles that can guide you through your own process in how you use your gifts in your own congregational context. This influences how we read about someone else’s ministry experience. We aren’t looking to live out the same story as they did. We are listening in on their story to see what impact it might have on our own or on the people we minister to.

You can read about what some of the most gifted ministers around share what has worked for them. That is a blessing for sure. However, it is better to read these books as a peer around the table rather than sit at their feet as a pupil. Let me give you an example. There is a difference in preparing for a sermon by picking up all the commentaries first and then forming conclusions about the text than studying the text for yourself and then consulting the commentaries. The same is true with reading books about ministry. It changes your position as listener when you have done the hard work first. You listen differently. You also have a better idea of what to accept and what to reject. This is one reason it is so important that ministry students do more than take classes. They need to be doing ministry along the way so they see how the pieces fit together in real time.

Let me end by asking a few questions:

1. What have you found helpful with books about ministry and where do you feel they miss the mark?
2. What are the most helpful ones you have read?

Studying With the Newly Baptized – Needing Your Input

We had marked the finish line in the wrong place. When someone was baptized we talked about that moment like their spiritual journey was complete. They had crossed a line but not the line. The reality was the finish line was still in the future. The ugly result of that was the newly baptized were often confused by the amount of difficulty they had living out their new found life in Christ because they had been given the idea that once they were baptized they had arrived. The transformation was complete. We made it sound like life was smooth sailing after your baptism. The reality was that Satan then came at them full blast and they weren’t ready for it.

After someone is baptized the teaching often stops because the intent of our teaching prior to baptism was to get them to Jesus through crossing their own Red Sea/Jordan of baptism. Once in the promised land we figured they had all the teaching they needed. A good look at both Old and New Testaments shows us that our presence in the promised land does not guarantee spiritual growth and faithfulness. It does not guarantee adversity comes to a stop. If anything, there is more teaching to do on the east side of the Red Sea than the west and the west side of the Jordan than on the east. The whole book of Judges, just a generation or so into the Promised Land experience reminds us that the whole generation had forsaken the Lord. We can’t let that happen to those who love.

Finding a More Intentional Path Toward Growing Mature Disciples
What often happens when someone is baptized is that they got tossed into a random hodge-podge of Sunday morning Bible classes that may or may not be what they need to mature in their faith. We need a more intentional path toward mature discipleship. The question is what does that path look like? It seems to me it would involve a couple of things:

1. Mentoring – time spent with someone more mature in their faith to help them see how faith looks like lived out, to pray for them, help them through failures, etc. This means having a pool of people who are capable and willing to work with new Christians. Often this might be those who studied with them initially who keep on
2. Study – As mentioned above, continued study should be a part of growing mature disciples. What does that look like? What should it cover? The typical approach might be to cover topics like pride, anger, prayer, worship, etc. I fear that approach easily becomes pretty shallow from the start. I have been asking ministers what they would include in a study with new Christians. The answer that keeps coming up is to keep them in tune with Jesus. One recommendation was to study the Sermon on the Mount. Another recommendation was to study various aspects of the life of Christ and the working of the Holy Spirit.
3. Ministry – Getting them involved in ministering to others. This has to be a part of the new life in Christ and it needs to start as soon as possible. Otherwise, we run the risk of developing self-centered disciples instead of disciples who mirror the two greatest commandments.

Needing Your Input
What else would you include? It seems to me how you frame all of this is extremely important. It is important that we get into identity issues over checklists of behavior. It is important that we continue to look to Jesus through the Gospels and Epistles. Somewhere in there, of course, Acts comes into play in their understanding of their mission as Christians. I am really a little at a loss as to how we have viewed Acts as such a pattern of the church over the mission of the church. I find lots of mission there and little to no pattern of what worship looked like, etc. Instead I find the Holy Spirit, evangelism, preaching the Good News, mission, boldness and total dependence on God. But that isn’t the focus of this post. The question is after someone is baptized “where do we go from here?” and “what exactly does that look like?”

Last, I am working on what this all this looks like from the congregational perspective. How do we implement it. How do we train? How is it lived out? How do we get people on board? etc. There are two results that I hope will spring out of this. Older Christians will get involved in ministering to others. New Christians will grow in their faith as a result of this process. I would really like to hear from you guys who are passionate about evangelism and mentoring. What ideas do you have here? I think we can go to two extremes if we aren’t careful…we can programize everything to death or we can do nothing. Neither one is healthy but it is important we are doing something whether formal or informal and that we communicate to the congregation what this looks like and how they can get involved.

Book Giveaway One Life by Scot McKnight

When I get amazon referral money from those of you who buy books through links on this blog I always give the money back to you guys. I don’t take a penny. It is that time again. I want to give away one copy of One Life by Scot McKnight to one of you guys.

Comment on this post and I will randomly pick a commenter and send you the book.

Guest Post: Using the Gospels in Evangelistic Bible Study by Eric Brown

I asked Eric Brown to do a guest blog post sharing his thoughts about evangelism. Eric preaches in Gainesville, Florida and is a good friend of mine. I think you will appreciation and learn from his thoughts. Here is what he had to say,

Over the past few years I’ve heard people say that they don’t know how to do an evangelistic bible study.  It would be one thing if these were “babes in Christ” but this has come from some people who have been Christians for years.  I’ve even heard of some trained in bible and theology make this claim which gives me the impression we’ve made this way too complicated.

For several years now the question I have loved to ask is “Would you like to read together the stories of Jesus’ ministry and teachings?”  If they say yes then when we get together we simply open one of the Gospels and begin reading and discussing that Gospel chapter by chapter.

My goal is to try to teach them as little as possible but to allow Jesus to be their teacher from day one.  I’ve done other “evangelistic bible studies” in the past but I’ve come to believe that there is no better way to do an evangelistic study than to simply walk with the person through a Gospel chapter by chapter.  Below I want to share several reasons for why I think walking them through a Gospel chapter by chapter is the best way to do an evangelistic study.

1. The Gospels (Matt, Mark, Lk,, Jn) were made for this very purpose, it’s the reason why the early church called them Gospels!  Gospel is the English word for the greek word ‘evanggelion,’ so their called Gospels because they are the Evanggelion.  So if you want to do an evangelistic study with someone use the Evanggelions- Gospels.
2. It allows Jesus to speak for himself and not me for Him.  Jesus gets to define who he is and what the kingdom is and what is most important to Him.  Jesus is to be their teacher, not you or I. Jesus instructed us ‘Nor are you to be called teacher, for you have one Teacher, the Christ.’  (Matt. 23:10)  We are not to be another person’s “Yoda.” (The NIV or ESV Study Bibles can provide good answers for most questions that are asked and for the questions you can’t answer you can reply by saying you don’t know.  People need to know we aren’t disciples, we aren’t even saved, by our knowing everything but by our trust in a person.  The reason we are called to live by faith as a disciple is precisely because God doesn’t give us all the answers!)
3. It allows us to walk alongside the person in both humility and appropriate confession.  Anyone who reads and talks about the Sermon on the Mount without humility and confession is just hypocritical!  We’re asking people to be vulnerable to confess they are sinners in need of a savior.  We must be willing to do no less.
4. It shows proper respect for scripture by honoring and trusting the way the Gospels are written and how the inspired Gospels are presenting the Gospel of Jesus and the Kingdom of God. It gives the proper respect due to Jesus and his word.

Imagine that you are having a Christmas party and you have invited me and told me to invite a few of my friends.  I take you up on the offer but before the party I come to your home and rearrange your furniture in a way that I feel is…better.  It would be better if you had the couch here instead of there, it would be better if we painted the living room walls a darker color with an accent wall.  It would be better if you had a few more pieces on your walls and less pictures on the mantel of the fire place.

Even if you did not add or subtract anything from the house most of us would be highly offended because the way we have arranged our house is an expression of who we are.  In the same way, I believe that the Gospels are written and arranged the way they are to present Jesus and the kingdom of God in the way that God would have it.  We can’t improve on this.  We believe the Gospels are inspired, we aren’t.

Eric asked me to share the link to the Jesus 101 study as another way to walk through the Gospel of Mark with someone.

Guest Post: When Faith Has a Bad Reputation by Tyler Ellis

GUEST BLOGGER: TYLER ELLIS serves on staff with Newark Church of Christ as Campus Minister at the University of Delaware. He is also author of the upcoming book, Questions Everything. He blogs at  www.BTylerEllis.com about exploring the challenges of knowing God and helping others do the same. These posts include weekly art & interviews, stories & ideas, and reviews & resources.  Follow him at: www.facebook.com/BTylerEllis and www.twitter.com/BTylerEllis

Thanks to Tyler for taking the time to share this. I want you to know why I asked Tyler to share his thoughts here. Knowing this will frame what he has written here and give you an appreciation for his ministry. What I appreciate about Tyler is that he is in touch with people who are seeking God. Often we have some success reaching people who have left or getting people who have some experience with Christianity. We struggle to reach those who are far, far away maybe because we have a hard time relating to them, connecting to them or even caring enough about them. I appreciate Tyler’s heart in reaching out to this group and I appreciate his insights that come out of that experience.

When Faith Has a Bad Reputation

“If you could ask 1,000 Christians one question, what would it be?”

This is one of my favorite questions to ask people who are not Christians.  Their answers can be very insightful.  Most recently, a college student responded by asking,

“Why is faith considered an admirable quality?”

At first hearing, you might think this is an easy question to answer.  After all, faith has the potential to be admired for its humility, conviction, and sacrifice – to name just a few.

But I knew from the context of our conversation, that by her definition of faith, there was nothing admirable about it.  From her perspective, any faith is blind faith.

Am I Expected To Have “Blind Faith”?

If someone asked you to give the definition of faith, what would you say?

Here are a handful of definitions I found by a quick Google search:

• Eugene Luther Vidal: “To ignore the absence of evidence is the basis of true faith.”
• The Chofetz Chaim: “With faith, there are no questions; without faith, there are no answers.”
• YourDictionary.com: “Unquestioning belief that does not require proof or evidence.”
• Atheism Resource: “Faith by definition is the suspension of critical thinking.  It’s gullibility dressed up like a virtue.  It’s what you use when you know that what you believe isn’t true.  We want people to believe things based on verifiable evidence, not blind faith.” (a Facebook page)
• Mark Twain: “Faith is believing what you know ain’t so.”

Sound familiar?  Do you think this way or know someone who does?

You can begin to see why a person would not view faith as an “admirable quality” to possess, if this is what comes to mind when they think about faith.

Personally, if I had blind faith, I would probably lose it.  And if I didn’t have blind faith, I wouldn’t want it.

How “Blind Faith” Blinds People From Good Faith

The concept of blind faith creates at least three major problems:

1. Blind faith silences the questions people need to ask if they have any hope of acquiring good faith.
2.  Blind faith gives the impression that there are no reasons to believe in God or to take the Bible seriously.
3. Blind faith fuels the misconception that faith of any kind is only possessed by religious people.

This is sad.  The choice should not be between blind faith and no faith, but bad faith and good faith.

What is Good Faith?

• Hebrews 11:1 (KJV): “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”
• Brian McLaren: “Faith is a dynamic state of relative certainty about matters of ultimate concern sufficient to promote action.”
• John Lennox: “Faith is not a leap in the dark; it’s the exact opposite.  It’s a commitment based on evidence… It is irrational to reduce all faith to blind faith and then subject it to ridicule.  That provides a very anti-intellectual and convenient way of avoiding intelligent discussion.”
• Tom Price: “Christian faith is not belief in the absence of evidence. It is the proper response to the evidence…So in conclusion, faith is not a kind of religious hoping that you do in spite of the facts. In fact, faith is a kind of knowing that results in doing.”
• Blaise Pascall: “If we submit everything to reason, our religion will have no mysterious and supernatural element. If we offend the principles of reason, our religion will be absurd and ridiculous.”

Faith is only as good as the object in which one puts their trust.  It’s like choosing between two airplanes when traveling across the world.  You can board the airplane on the left that has failed to pass inspection OR you can board the airplane on the right that has passed inspection.

Good faith is trusting in that which is trustworthy.

That’s what is so remarkable about the claims of Christianity.  When you read in the Book of Acts, the history of how the Christian faith took flight some two thousand years ago, you don’t find accounts of early Christians asking people to follow Jesus blindly.  Instead, account after account, you see early Christians inviting seekers to test the trustworthiness of their claims.

Beginning with the very first “sermon” recorded in Acts 2, when the apostles claimed that Jesus was the long-awaited Messiah, they appealed to three evidences to back up that claim:

1. The Messianic Prophecies Jesus fulfilled;

2. The Miracles Jesus performed; and

3. The Resurrection of Jesus from the dead.

Not only were they eyewitnesses of these events, but they died as martyrs for their faith in Jesus.

[For additional study, read The Book of Acts; more specifically 2:14-47; 17:2-3,11; 28:13]

What Airplane Will You Board?

Faith is inescapable.  You exercise it every day: with every alarm clock you set, every meal you eat, every car you drive, every intersection you come to, every bridge you cross, every elevator you ride, and every bank account you open.  Every day we take risks in the things we put our trust in, without possessing 100% certainty.  It is same when it comes to the worldview we trust to explain our lives.

Brain McLaren says it well, “The best alternative to “bad faith” in God is not necessarily no faith [in God].”

SO HERE’S THE CHALLENGE: Don’t step back from the possibility of good faith simply because others are stepping forward with bad faith.  Do whatever it takes to obtain an “admirable” faith.

LEAVE A COMMENT

• Where did your concept of faith come from?
• How has it influenced you for good or for bad?

RELATED POST:

• GOOD FAITH VS. BAD FAITH (A SURVEY) http://www.btylerellis.com/2012/03/12/good-faith-vs-bad-faith-a-survey/
• Faith and Facts, by Greg Koukl http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5242

RECOMMENDED BOOKS:

• Finding Faith: A Search For What Makes Sense, by Brian McLaren http://www.amazon.com/Finding-Faith-Search-Makes-Sense/dp/B001OOLENI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337961920&sr=8-1
• Finding Faith: A Search For What Is Real, by Brian McLaren http://www.amazon.com/Finding-Faith-Search-What-Real/dp/031027267X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1337961952&sr=1-1

Image by: drawingonanapkin http://browse.deviantart.com/photography/?order=9&q=blind+leap&offset=0#/d1hecqy

Casting a Vision for Evangelism: Our New Evangelistic Bible Class In Action

This post is something I want you all to read and, if needed, consider implementing
in the congregation where you worship.

Usually when you think about a Bible class on evangelism you pretty much figure you are going to talk about how to reach out. You spend time on techniques, tactics, and share experiences that hopefully get people to become more evangelistic. I am a teacher at heart and my usual answer for just about anything is that we just need to teach on it some more. Well, my wife has helped me to see that sometimes more words don’t result in the needed changes. Sometimes you have to be the change you are seeking in others. Sometimes you have to do and invite into that experience what you think people need to be doing in order for it to happen. Having said all of that, a few weeks ago we ended our men’s class in order to start an evangelistic class. I don’t mean we are talking about how to evangelize. We spend the class time coordinating outreach of real people. We are still tweaking it as we go but I thought I would share what we are doing in this class so that someone else could start this if they wanted to. Before I lay out the class, much of what is done in the class comes out of the Church Steps that I wrote about a few posts back:

• Casting a Vision for Evangelism: Introduction to Our New Approach
• Casting a Vision for Evangelism: What We Are Doing
• Casting a Vision for Evangelism: Church Steps
• Casting a Vision for Evangelism: Church Steps in Action

Summary of those posts:
The gist of all of those posts is that we decided our evangelism was way too passive. We pretty much hoped it was happening. Then we decided it was time to make a plan and execute the plan week in and week out. The plan involves five steps of where people usually fall in becoming a Christian (people we know who have never come to anything, people who have come but haven’t gotten plugged in, those who have some relationships in the congregation, those who are studying about Christianity and finally those who have been baptized but need to get involved). Each step describes their current situation and the need that will get them to the next step. It really isn’t always that cut and dry in the real world but you have to start somewhere.

Evangelistic Bible Class:
So what does an evangelistic Bible class look like? Many of you have probably done this at some point as well and I value your feedback. Here is what we do:

1. Devotional related to evangelism. Topics like what it means to be lost, conversion, new life, resurrection, etc (10 minutes)
2. Review what action people have taken from last week’s class (5-7 minutes)
3. Celebrate success (5 minutes)
4. Who do you know we can reach out to? (5 minutes)
5. Church Steps – Communicating various needs of our visitors and lining up contacts and studies from within the class. We go through who is visiting, who needs studied with, etc and get people in the class to do that this week (15 minutes)
6. Prayer – Hand our prayer list of all the names we are discussing for class members to pray over. Prayer time (5-7 minutes)

Throughout the class we sometimes have a prayer here or there where it seems like the thing to do. If someone is talking about their neighbor they want to reach out to we don’t mind stopping things and praying for them right then and there if that seems like the thing to do. So this class has some flexibility but these are the main six things we do. We have also encouraged those who are going to study with non-Christians to just do it during class time in other classrooms (using Jesus 101).